INTERVIEW OF CARL AND DOROTHY LIEPE
BY JOHN AND HELEN BRANIFF
JULY 5, 1980
(That is probably when they were talking about really before the Second World War. That’s when I think it was really cheap. I saw it advertised in New York in Strouds agency had the catalogue and my gosh you could buy a hundred acre farm down here for $5000 you know it was unbelievable?)
It’s going to go back to that because the Pineland Commissions are just making our land valueless.
(It will never really go all that way that’s for sure, don’t you think?)
It won’t be worth anything to anybody soon because you have to have so many acres in order to build, all that sort of thing. I just wonder what the Pineland Commission is going to do to the farmer.
(I don’t think hers going to help him much that’s for sure. There is one outlet though. Put sewers in and then you can sell it for lots huh?)
Yes, that’s the only way you can develop it. If you have farm land it’s supposed to stay farm land though I think.
(Yes, but eventually they are going to have to put sewers in and that will be the end of it. Then they can keep you to one acre or so but it will come. It has to, I mean it has to go somewhere, otherwise everything the other side of the Parkway will have a house every foot or so.)
Of course there are still people with ten and fifteen acre plots who are in good shape because they would be little estates. They will sell for big money, no question about it. As long as you have a housing shortage. You seem to always have a housing shortage, I don’t know why, I don’t think that’s going to happen or that it will bother you too much.
(Were most of the people, do you know, Lutheran?)
Originally they were yes, German Lutheran.
(Either Catholic or Lutheran, one or the other. There wasn’t much choice in the old days was there? North Germany was Lutheran and South Germany was Catholic?)
The Germans started the Moravians in Egg Harbor too.
(There are a lot of off shoots off of that I believe aren’t there of the I Lutheran faith, minor organizations of it?)
Yes, there were.
(I think they taught German in the schools here too didn’t they up until the First World War?)
Oh no, when Carl’s mother went to school, she said she had half day German and half day English but that’s over a hundred years ago.
(Strange thing, when we first came out here they all spoke German a mile a minute. Egg Harbor Dutch, they called it.)
Yes, they have a story about that John: The Egg Harbor German. “The coohat over the fenz could jump and the ginsa Cabbage cadamaged.”
(Half English half German. It’s like they used to say "Ca cal da roach.”)
That’s the way in Egg Harbor, they got it mixed up. Of course originally it was all German but then with inter-marriage and all it got mixed in. When we were at the end of the line and Cologne Ave only went down as far as the fire house, it didn’t go through the swamp or anything where there were big swamps. Electricity didn’t come through here until 1927.
(That’s something I wanted to ask you, originally do you remember your grandfather’s house at all?)
Well, I remember the house, it’s still there.
(What did he use, kerosene?)
No, wood stoves.
(I mean for lighting candles?)
No, kerosene as far as I know, and we used kerosene of course. We still have the little oil lamp that Carl went to bed with and believe it or not it’s that "Peanuts" lamp that is so popular now.
(Getting back to the lamps and things that you used, what did you use for heating coal or wood?)
They used coal and wood both, yes.
(You had fire places I presume?)
No, we didn’t have fire places. Ranges, kitchen ranges you know and other stoves. We had a heater in the cellar. It was pretty early I guess compared to some of the other folks. One reason is that my dad used to store his sweet potatoes in the cellar so he had pipes on the cellar floor and then pipes and the boards over top of that where you put your baskets.
(The nicest part of your house must have been the cellar?)
Yes, the warmest part anyway. Then we had the back portion as you know as the sun parlor John, where they used to bring them up out of the cellar and clean them there.
(Now when you say clean them just what do you mean?)
Well, they used to brush the dirt off or the sand off.
(Did you do that just before you sold then?)
Yes, just before you shipped them.
(You didn’t, monkey with them otherwise?)
Oh no, you didn’t disturb them. The more you disturbed them the worse it got. When you broke the skin on the potato that was bad. That was the end of it. It wouldn’t last too long.
(I know they are very tricky to handle aren’t they?)
Yes, they are; when they were shipped at that time they used to be all in those tall hamper baskets. We used to have to paper the baskets, we would line the basket with newspaper and have newspaper on top where you’d put the lid on. That would insulate them a little in shipping and keep them from rubbing so bad.
(I kept mine in peach baskets when I would take them. I moved them once from the time I bought them just took them and put them in a peach basket and lined it with paper. I placed them carefully in that and that was it. I didn’t touch them again until we ate them. I kept them down in the cellar where it wasn’t two warm and not too cool or dry, which maybe wasn’t too good for them?)
No, they like a little humidity.
(You can’t sprinkle them with water or anything can you?)
No, not that I know of.
(You’re in deep trouble then. They probably rot?)
Yes, well I think when they shipped by train it wasn’t as rough as shipping by the modern trucking companies.
(You’re right, the only time they got into trouble was when they bumped the cars, when they couple them up. The trucks, they would wobble and bounce and go all over.)
The berries and everything they used to take down to where Aloe Street is now. They put them on the train for New York. Most of their products went to New York.
(Not to Philadelphia, that’s strange?)
Philadelphia and New York, but mostly New York.
(When did the railroads come through do you have any idea?)
I’m not sure about that. The railroads were here before the people came to Cologne like our, this, family came to Cologne and the railroads were here. It cost five cents to go from Cologne to Egg Harbor. Uncle Herman always tells the story of his Uncle, who died a very wealthy man, always carried a twenty dollar bill and said that’s all he had. Of course the conductor on the train couldn’t change the twenty for the five cent fare.
(I’ll tell you something funny. I tried that in New York on the trolley car that I took every morning to school. It worked only once though, the second time he handed me the change, he had it all counted out in his pocket and there it was. We had some trolley cars that were all red. They were named after the mayor because he got them in there. They were really bumpy and terrible and they were called "Red Mikes" after Mayor Mike Heyland. There was no transportation at all here between these little towns was there outside of the train?)
No, just the train that’s all.
(Did that train stop at every little town?)
Yes, it would stop at Egg Harbor, Cologne, and at Pomona. That’s also how you got your mail and all that.
(How about Germania, was that a lost town?)
Well Germania and Cologne were the same actually. On the Pennsylvania Line they had a sign board up there at, not a station, but a freight house and that had Germania on it. That Germania, I think, was before Cologne. There so happens that there is another Germania in New Jersey so in order to have our Post Office here, I don’t know who developed this Cologne name but of course being from Cologne, Germany, that’s where it came from, they used Cologne for a Post Office. It was on the Reading Line at that time.
(Was the Post Office always Cologne?)
Yes, it was.
(Oh I see, then when they built the new building they just put the name Cologne on it, in other words there never was a Germania Post Office?)
No, that’s right, there never was a Germania Post Office.
(Wasn’t that Post Office on the other side of the track at one time?)
It was on this side of the track where that for sale sign is.
(Right, then they moved it across?)
No, they moved it to where it is now.
(In other words, it was always this side of the tracks?)
Yes, this side of the tracks and when they moved it they moved it to where the Post Office is now because it was the Cologne Hatchery and the man who had the Cologne Hatchery was the Post Master.
(They also told me that is when Germania lost out. When they moved the Post Office from this side to the other side of the track, that’s when Germania really ceased. Actually that should never have been Cologne, that should always have been Germania. They moved the Post Office over there and that is how it happened. It is a very interesting thing about the loss of the towns.)
Actually there was no town.
(There wasn’t any at all?)
No, there’s never been a town. There was a Germania Fruit Grower’s Union a general store but there was never a town. At the corner where the Bob White was, that’s where they stopped to get their liquid refreshments, their beer etc. It was like a hotel. You could only go so many miles with a horse and wagon. Actually there has never been a town.
(There’s not even a town in Cologne today is there? You’ve got all there is Bob White and the gas station, It didn’t exist really.)
That’s all, actually Cologne was just a name of an area. Where it stops and where it starts nobody knows, just a post office name.
(If they ever get a Galloway Post Office that their fighting for we’ll lose Cologne and all those little towns in between too. You know they are talking about trying to get a Galloway Post Office. Was there a town that you know of years ago between Cologne and Pomona? Is there a little town in there the name of something?)
Not that I know of. My dad used to go to Pomona to school and I’m sure he would have mentioned it.
(What is between Pomona and Absecon anything?)
Pinehurst. That’s new there that’s not old there. It’s more of a development.
(There’s no old name of an old town that was in there?)
People would say they live in Pinehurst but there was nothing there other than the name.
(That was actually an old name?)
Oh yes.
(Then there actually was a place like Germania?)
Yes, but I don’t believe there was a town there for the railroad turned so there was no railroad stop there I think it was a development prior to the 1930 period before the depression. It was probably a developer who went in there and cut the streets through. Because of so many pine trees he called it Pinehurst.
(The thing that puzzles me about Germania for example is; you have the motel, the Bob White, The Grange, the Fire Department, and that other thing next to the Fire House?)
The Leider Kranz, that was a singing society
(And they are all called Germania? There is a freezer place there too?)
Yes, but that isn’t old. That wasn’t there many years ago. The Leider Kranz Hall that’s over at Smithville was alongside of the fire house. Then right here on Cologne Ave. between here and Aloe Street, it’s a house now but that also was called Arrow Social Hall. That didn’t have Cologne or Germania’s name. There was a bunch of so called musicians got together. In other words that’s where they made their fun.
(Was it all men or was it coed? I was wondering about socializing?)
No, it was family. You went with your wife and your children and your baby coach.
(Did they have beer and wine and things?)
Yes.
(Was it served there or did you bring it?)
No they usually would tap a keg. They would play cards. Cards were very big.
(Was it a fairly decent sized place?)
Well it is a house now. It’s on the left. It was always that size.
(Were you ever in the Leider Kranz?)
In the Leider Kranz, yes.
(Was that the same thing just a singing society?)
Well everything was there. The Grange used to meet there and all.
(At the Leider Kranz? Before they built their own place? Did they also have drinks and everything?)
Yes, before they built their own place. Yes, they had drinks. We used to go there to dances.
(How did you join that society?)
We never joined it. What I can remember of the Leider Kranz, it wasn’t much of a singing society. I think Henk and those fellows were originally in on it. When I was a young teenager, I don’t know who sponsored them, but they used to have dances. The part of the Leider Kranz that is down in Smithville is the old part and there was like a ball room on the back. They added that on. You had the small part first and then the other.
(Tell me something. you might be able to tell me the truth on this. Did they have here such things as masquerade balls back in the twenties? Because that suggests to me where we came from in Staten Island there was a German Hall and it was a singing society. They used to rent out the hall. Every spring and early January and February they had these masquerade balls before Lent. They were called the German Club Rooms up there. Do you remember them?)
We had masquerades but I don’t know, of anything there like that. I think if you had someone in the neighborhood with a lot of leadership. There was a girl in the area who loved to supervise plays. They would give plays and that sort of thing.
(At the Leider Kranz?)
No, at the Arrow mainly. The place has always had a stage, It would be if you had someone who had the leadership to do it. We always had minstrels too.
(Carl what did you people do for Christmas as young children do you remember?)
Well we always had a big tree and a garden under the tree. We have some wooden animals that Carl’s dad carved. He carved all different kinds of animals out of wood.
(What did this garden consist of?)
Well, he made a lot of things himself but usually we had carried it on a long while. I used to make gardens like that too. We would have a platform and we would go into the woods and gather moss off the trees for grass. We’d have little twigs we would stick in. Most of the time we didn’t buy anything. It would all be handmade. We would make little houses. He carved animals and things like that. In our house, the front room, which was the parlor, was separate from the living room, dining room, and kitchen. The front room was the parlor you know. When I was a kid, still believing in Santa Claus, that room got closed off right after Thanksgiving, that was the end of it. You never got in there until Christmas. His mother made candy and cookies. That was her gift to the rest of the family, a box of cookies and some homemade candy.
(That’s right, I believe in that. Tell me did you also hang up your stockings before Christmas?)
No, we never did anything with the stockings. We visited all over the neighborhood, the whole Christmas Holiday, from Christmas to New Year. We walked all through the neighborhood.
(Of course you probably had cookies at each house you stopped at along the way?)
Oh, yes, sure.
(What did you have, a cider or- They didn’t have Coca-Cola and Pepsi in those days did they?)
No, I don’t know if the children had cider or not. What we had most of the time John, I don’t know if it was the custom just around here or what, we had sugar wine, the kids all had it.
(What is sugar wine?)
You’d get about a table spoon full of wine in a glass of water, and a spoonful of sugar stirred into it and that is what you had.
(You mean colored water?)
They called it sugar wine. Only a small amount of wine. It had a wine flavor.
(Did you make your own wine?)
Most all of them did, my dad did.
(What kind did he make?)
My dad made mostly grape wine.
(Any blackberry?)
He made blackberry, he made wild cherry and he made peach wine. I know they are the ones he made while here. When he moved down the street here after we were married he made wine out of most everything I guess. He had pine-needle wine. It was good.
(Sounds like the one the Greeks made of some kind of rosin? It was terrible.
This wine tasted like gin, gin flavor, of course it is red in color.
(And they made it out of pine needles?)
Pine needles, yes. He used to chop them up. I think he even had some Cedar dredges in there too.
(That is a cheap product isn’t it? You better find that recipe. You make enough of that you could put it into your car and drive it around too. Tell me Carl, what kind of cakes and cookies did they have back then?)
Now you have me, but they were butter cookies I think, from years back because, they had their own cows and made their own butter. Butter wasn’t to them what butter is to us today. Springerle was a popular cookie in Germany. Everyone had their own chickens and therefore we had the eggs. Momma made a cookie she called a jumble but I don’t know what it was. She was the best cookie baker.
(Did she make Lebkuchen?)
I don’t remember her calling any by that name.
(How about Pfeffernusse?)
Not too much Pfeffernusse. She was more of a sugar cookie baker. Carl’s people were very much on the modern side. They always had the newest things. They had the first truck, they had the first tractor. They were hard workers. They always looked ahead. He was one of the first Blueberry growers in the State of New Jersey. They had to stop growing them here because when the electric came through the air plane could no longer come and dust. If your berries aren’t sprayed and dusted you can’t ship them. They get worms and you can’t send a worm to market. They will just reject them.
(How do you dust them?)
Now they do it all with airplanes.
See Part 3
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